WeHero Learning Series | Engaging employees and delivering social impact

Ally Murphy: Hello everyone. I hope your day is off to a fabulous start. Welcome to this 2023 July webinar, sponsored by WizeHive, Engaging Employees and Delivering Social Impact: The power of volunteering. My name's Ally Murphy. I'm the Director of Events and program Development at Engage for Good. And in today's webinar, you're going to learn how workplace volunteer programs can activate a culture of giving and social impact, the unprecedented impact that these programs can have on employee engagement and the synergistic effect of combining workplace giving with volunteering. And with that, it is my pleasure to hand it over to WizeHive's, David Grubman. David, take it away.

David Grubman: Thanks, Ali. I was so excited to, to be here and so excited to be able to talk on, on this topic. I want to quickly introduce myself and our panelists. And then really the focus of the conversations today is going to be about the amazing work that Kate is doing at Campbell Soup and Ben has been doing with WeHero about volunteering programs. So first, the panelists that we have today are Kate Barrett president of Campbell Soup Foundation, Ben Sampson, the co-founder and CEO of WeHero, and myself, David Grubman, with WizeHive. So to start with we're, we're going to go through a pretty robust and dynamic conversation about the programs that Kate's, that Kate's running and with her company and what Ben's seeing in, in the industry overall. But I'd like to start with, it's more valuable when you have the context of what, what their background is and what their programs look like.

David Grubman: So I want to start with Kate would love to get an understanding of the work you've been doing with Campbell Soup. But wait, before you do that, I have to call out the one story. The one story. I live in California, but I traveled to Toledo, Ohio to visit my sister. And I was in a restaurant one day and a bunch of folks came in with Campbell's Cares shirts on. And I was so excited for the work that we've been doing with Campbell Soup to see those folks and they, I think they felt it an intrusion for me to stop by their table, but was so excited to see, to see that in, in the field. But Kate would love to have you share details about the program that you guys offer.

Kate Barrett: Great. Great. Thanks David. Hi everybody. So yeah, Kate Barrett. I serve as the president of the Campbell Soup Foundation, as David mentioned. And also just the director of our community affairs team. So just briefly, kind of within the scope of community affairs for us very much includes the all of our employee engagement work giving and volunteerism, but also includes our grant making out of the foundation our signature programs and multi-year grant initiatives, as well as overseeing some work with disaster relief and product donations and community partnerships. So kind of the, the full full range of of community activities at Campbell's I'm based in Camden, New Jersey, which is where our headquarters is. And as you can see from the slide here, you know, we have kind of a range of, of employee giving and volunteerism programs really encouraging volunteering kind of year round.

Kate Barrett: And that's actually, you know, been something we've been really trying to push is I think those, you know, having the dedicated volunteer days and giving days is really important, but also really trying to, to push for sort of a year-round culture of giving. And so we have our year round matching program that supports people giving their time and their dollars. And you can see here, you know, a few specific examples that will, I'm sure we'll go into a little more detail later, but things like our backpack program that we especially roll out across our manufacturing locations. So we have about 30 communities across North America that we support. And then we again have those dedicated volunteer days. We have, you know, I would say increased push around skills-based volunteering with sort of varying levels of formality kind of built out. But again, really just a range of programs that really are designed to foster employee choice and allow our employees to connect to their own passion areas and to connect to the passion and the purpose of the company.

David Grubman: Awesome. Fantastic. Thanks Kate. And Ben would love to, would love to have you share with the, with the team the work that you've done with WeHero.

Ben Sampson: I'm just here to listen to Kate. I think I'm just sort being an attendee. David, I think the panelist was a mistake.

David Grubman: Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Ben Sampson: I'm Ben Sampson everybody. I'm a co-founder and CEO over here at WeHero. I got into this space really doing volunteer programs internationally. For example, I was living in Peru at 14,000 feet doing economic development and then, you know, quickly discovered the world of CSR and ESG and really got passionate about engagement and volunteerism in companies, how we can do that at scale and maximize impact globally. And so we here we really focus on working with companies on reaching their engagement targets, how to scale their volunteerism efforts across the globe and how to maximize impact in doing that. So really excited to be spending time with you all and really excited to hang out with Kate and David today.

David Grubman: Alright, so I think to to Ben's point as well, this isn't about me, this is about Ben and Kate, but I do want to offer introduction to myself. So I've been with, with WizeHive Bright Funds for, for over three years and have the opportunity to work with, with companies around the globe and helping them design and understand their programs and bring the, bring their programs to reality. But a little bit about WizeHive, and this really isn't about WizeHive today, but I want to provide some context. So WizeHive is a, is a SaaS solutions provider where we're focused on social, social good and social impact. And we do that in three ways through our grant making capabilities on our engine platform, our employee giving and volunteering capabilities on our Bright Funds platform and our WeHero capabilities with the volunteering team, building and engagement experiences.

David Grubman: And, you know, we continue to make investment in social good capabilities and we continue to grow our organization and have the amazing opportunity to support over 1200 organizations across all three of these, these different product lines. But this isn't about me, this is about, this is about, this is about Kate and Ben. So what I'd like to do is we've put together a, a couple of a, a little bit of a structure to, to, to garden to, to, to offer a, a kind of organic conversation about, to learn about what's working and what, what's working, what opportunities, what your successes have looked like. So to start with, Kate, I know you, you started with, you know, kind of the high level view of your program, but I think one of the things that's amazing about the Campbell Soup Program is the legacy of the program. And we have the opportunity to work with so many new tech companies that are launching programs, but you guys come from such a different perspective. Can you talk about the legacy of your program?

Kate Barrett: Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, I you know, Campbell's has been around a very long time. We've been, you know, in Camden, our headquarters city for over 150 years. And giving and volunteerism has really always been part of the company's d n a and a part of what we do. You know, that said, you know, we, like everyone else, need to adapt to the changing times and really have had the opportunity over the last, you know, seven or eight years especially to really reinvent our programs and rethink our programs. And particularly I would say, you know, a change that we made, you know, really, I guess about five years ago was really thinking about how do we kind of evolve our programs to make them, you know, one sort of foster more of that employee choice piece that I, that I talked about a few minutes ago.

Kate Barrett: And really make sure that we are kind of making our programs just simple and user-friendly. So, you know, in the past we had a, you know, a matching program for dollars for doers, and there was a whole set of parameters around that. And then we had an employee giving program and there was a whole set of parameters around preferred organizations and a lot of paper forms, frankly, to kind of get your match. And then there was a separate giving campaign and days of service, and it was all honestly, like a little bit disjointed. So I think the, the big change that we really made, you know, five years ago is to bring it all together in a simplified format and really have one annual match cap for employees that they can then use to match their dollars or their time however they see fit.

Kate Barrett: And while we have, you know, certainly we will design programs to try to, you know, make that connection to the types of causes that Campbell supports from a grant perspective. Right? So, not surprisingly, we do a lot of work around food access and nutrition and healthy living given what we do as a company, but we realize that our employees have a lot of different passion areas and different places where they want to plug in and get involved. So we want to provide both the opportunities to get involved in kind of our signature programs and our grant programs and make that connection to, you know, food access and some of our priorities. But then we also really want to have the opportunity for employees to, to connect to what matters to them. So really being able to just streamline and simplify the program and say, you know, you can use these matching dollars as you, as you see fit. There's one, you know, really one platform for it. Take out the paper forms. You know, that really has been kind of how we've taken some of those legacy programs, I would say more into the modern era.

David Grubman: And, and Kate, there's a little bit of divergence, but as we look at some of the questions that we've gotten, what's your personal journey? Because you know, this, the CSR space and social goods space is evolving and so many people are passionate and they want to get into it. Like, what has your personal journey been in, because I mean, you are like at, at a level that so many people would love to be at in your space. What's your personal journey been?

Kate Barrett: Yeah, I mean, I do always say like, there really is not one standard career path to get into this. I mean, sometimes I almost even know, know what to call like CSR corporate philanthropies sustainability, right? There's also so many there's not even really a standard job title or name of, of kind of what this work is, but I would say, right, this whole idea of sort of corporate responsibility creating shared value as a company for, you know, for both communities and for the business there is really not, not a standard path. So you know, I will share that, you know, my own background is a mix of kind of nonprofit and, and for-profit. And so to me, kind of bringing that together in this space was kind of a, a perfect, a perfect fit and for me, really a dream job.

Kate Barrett: But you know, I was a public health major in undergrad. I wound up going into management consulting out of undergrad, and working with a variety of different types of companies, you know, many focused on healthcare kind of from all different angles, pharmaceuticals, hospitals, nonprofits. And then from there went and worked for an organization called the Center for High Impact Philanthropy, which is based at University of Pennsylvania. And then from there, you know, dabbled with honestly a few other in other corporate settings and a couple tech startups, and then just ultimately was really driven back to this intersection of social impact and business. And so I often joke that I basically stalked my, my predecessor at Campbell's till there was a role open on her team. And and, you know, ultimately then kind of worked my way up into my role today.

Kate Barrett: So, you know, just quickly too, if you look at my team, I've got somebody who came from public radio and media. I have someone who came from higher education, someone who came from an organization actually not too dissimilar from like a WeHero or kind of, you know, works with companies to design social impact programs. Sort of more on the, this is a little bit more on the consulting side, so a real variety of even just who makes up my team. And I think that's, you know, I would say a big part of our success too, as we all bring diverse perspectives to be able to do our work.

David Grubman: That's a tough journey to try and follow those footsteps. If one wanted to get into this. So, so Ben, I, so, so I'd love to share, have you share a little bit about, you know, kind of how we, you know, how WeHero works. But let's start with that. Like how did, I know you started a little bit on this. What was your journey to get into this? You do amazing the engagement work. What was your personal journey if someone wanted to follow that?

Ben Sampson: Yeah, and I'll start by saying, you know, I love hearing Kate's journey and how the, the stalking tactic, I love that. But I think, you know, first off, there's so many gaps and challenges in our space, and I think those are some of the things that we're going to be talking about today. So I think there's the avenue of trying to find a role within these companies, but also trying to like, solve some of the gaps and challenges that, that folks that are in social impact roles are having. And so mine was, I came across and I ran to a woman that had the title CSR I had no clue what that was. And she went on and tell me like, oh, it's corporate social responsibility. I handle basically all the philanthropic efforts at our company. I do the corporate volunteering, the givings, and so on and so forth.

Ben Sampson: And my mind was just blown that there was a job that, that that's what we got to do. I was in management consulting as well at the time and doing folks on product. And now I was like, oh my gosh, like, this is incredible. I was living in San Francisco, I started reaching out to all these different CSR professionals to ask them to get coffee. And as many of you know, like that are like on this webinar, this industry is so friendly and so open. And it had so many people like openly accept my invite to like, get coffee with them and learn about the space. And again, like I got into this and totally tripped into this industry. I had so many people telling me that they were really struggling on the volunteer side of things. They were really struggling with how do we do volunteer programs at scale?

Ben Sampson: How do we make sure they're actually making an impact? How do we bump our engagement numbers for our employees? And, and having that background and working with so many nonprofits, you know, doing international volunteer work, I never thought there was a, a career going down that path for me and figuring out that like, oh, I can help these companies with their volunteer programs. Getting you to connect with some of the nonprofits that I was working with at the time is kind of how I tripped into the space. And so yeah, I always joke, I I fell into this industry and I think there's a lot of opportunity out there for anybody that's looking to jump in. So

David Grubman: What I'm hearing is management consulting and stalking apparently are the two keys. So for all of you that want to get into this space, alright, let's bring it back. So, so Kate's Kate's software perspective of what specifically Campbell's is doing, but again, they're, they have a legacy of a century of this, the kind of community support when you work with companies that are, that are newer into the volunteering or trying to make an impact or trying to create that activation through volunteering. Like how do you advise clients to launch a committed program? Because companies can come, you know, companies can come and say, Hey, I want a sales event for 15 people, or I want to make a commitment into volunteering. How, what does that process look like when you work with firms?

Ben Sampson: First off, that, for any companies that are looking at this, like seeing the case studies like Campbell's is so effective and beneficial. So I highly encourage you to keep doing that. We spend, I spend a lot of my time working with a lot of, of different companies that are like in the size of like the Fortune 1000 category. As you can imagine, David. Like, a lot of those are so different in regards to where they're at in their journey and what their goals are for their programs. But I think there's some things that, that really stand out. I think big picture thinking is absolutely essential when you're thinking about launching a program. I think so often we're thinking about immediate goals of we need a volunteer event for Earth Day, or we want to give back during our sales conference. I think that comes up as like the immediate needs for the year.

Ben Sampson: I think first and foremost, we want to make sure that if we are launching a program, that it can be successful for a very long time and have the legacy that the, what Kate and Camels are doing. Yeah. And to get that right support and that rank kind of engagement. And that means working with companies to evaluate what I think of just like a few of the following bullets. Like, does the program align with the business goals? I think this is really key. What are the defined goals and objectives of this program? How do we build transparency and accountability into the program? Mm-Hmm, what is the time commitment for this program? What I mean by time commitment, like, are we building a program for the next five years, the next 10 years, what does that look like? And then what are the engagement goals for the program and how can we ensure the success? So I think that taking a step back and looking at the goals of the businesses and the goals of the program are absolutely essential. I'm happy to jump in and talk about like, you know, what elements of that look like, but that's just to, to kick us off like some of the big picture thinking. I really encourage companies to, to go in with.

David Grubman: Well, it's interesting you use the term event is different than a program and like, so, you know, talking about that. because I think you're, you're right. Is that, I mean, firms are looking for events, but there's a difference between event and a program. And how would you differentiate that?

Ben Sampson: Yeah, I think programs like the long-term thinking of how are we going to utilize and engage our ERGs, our, our staff to like build these programs that actually scale where it's not like just our, you know, small c s R team consistently trying to launch volunteer events and create these opportunities. That's a lot of work and it takes a lot of time, especially if you have a global company with, you know, 10,000 plus employees. I mean, we work with companies that have a hundred thousand plus employees. How do you actually do that at scale? So that's why where I kind of refer to like the program, David, it's not like a a 500 person volunteer event. It's a program that can scale where we can activate employees, we can make sure we're building, you know, ambassadors within the organization that can take those efforts out to their own divisions of the company and making sure we're measuring and reporting on that. So we can constantly adjust that program moving forward. And so and happy to get into any part of that as well.

David Grubman: So a point that both of you brought up is, is about engagement. And, and again, Kate, I'm going to call out, there's differences in the, in the business that you guys have than a lot of other companies. First of all, to provide the context, what is the demographic of the workforce? And then if we could kind of unpack like, how are you effectively creating engagement? And I know, and I know nothing's perfect, but like, like what, what does that look like for you starting with the demographics? Yeah, yeah.

Kate Barrett: So we have, yeah, I mean a pretty, you know, I think every company has a, a diverse demographic, but we often think about it in terms of you know, just how our employees sort of interact with, you know, each other and, and kind of in the workforce in terms of, you know, office-based manufacturing based and then kind of remote and field-based. Right? So we have and actually the majority of our employees actually are in our manufacturing facilities, right, right. Making our product. Yeah. And that, you know, has definitely been a challenge. I mean, I think I'll, I'll be honest in saying historically our programs really, were looking at our salaried workforce and really were not necessarily as much taking into account you know, our hourly frontline employees. And so that's been a really big push for, for our, my team is to really, like, it's really a matter of equity in a lot of ways, right?

Kate Barrett: It's really thinking about, hey, you know, we do describe these as company-wide program, let's make sure that they're really company-wide. So it really is just a lot of, you know, listening to our different stakeholders, meeting people where they are, realizing that it's not going to look the same in an office versus a manufacturing facility versus someone who's a field sales person, right? So a lot of kind of listening and adapting and being willing to be flexible is definitely a, a big part of it. And then it's also really around creating local champions and, you know, kind of ben references too, right? It's like a lot of CSR teams, mine included, are pretty small. I, we have a team of, of four, right? And so we're certainly not going to be able to cover 30. And, and again, I would say like many companies are even bigger than this, right?

Kate Barrett: We have 30 locations. Are we going to be able to single-handedly or sort of personally run events and programs at all those locations? No. So it's our job to both kind of build things that can be scaled and replicated and have sort of easy instructions and ways to engage and then to kind of build those local champions at our other offices and plant sites who can then execute. You know, we can give that support, we can provide those toolkits, right? We can answer questions, but we can't, we can't do it all ourselves. So really thinking about the local champion piece and then just really the willingness to to adapt our programs to meet, to meet different needs of, of different stakeholder groups.

David Grubman: Alright. And I'm, I'm sure, I'm sure speakers love hearing this. I'm going to go off script a little bit, but I want to bring that point back to Ben. So Ben, so when, with the companies, again, different, you know, the opportunity you're working with dozens or hundreds of companies, how does engagement, how, how do one, what does that connection look like successfully in the clients that you work with?

Ben Sampson: What does like engagement look like? Success.

David Grubman: Yeah, sorry. Engagement. Yeah.

Ben Sampson: I think there's a few key things, Eric. I, I, I would say like a few key elements as I like, think about David, just like the hundreds of companies that we might work with that create like a really successful program. One of those being like engaging employees at the earliest stage. This means like when new hires come in, activating them with the volunteer experience mm-hmm. And educating them about the social impact efforts at your company. So great to do that right when an employee comes in. Because our goal is that, hey, we get them excited about volunteering, we get them excited about social impact at our company. And maybe if we get them excited enough, they'll be ambassadors for our programs moving forward and continue to actively participate. So that early engagement I think is important. I think campaigning aggressively to get leadership buy-in, we know that this is a thorn for so many programs.

Ben Sampson: And so campaigning, what I mean by that is it can be really hard to get leadership buy-in or executive buy-in for these programs. I say campaigning because I encourage companies to go as high up as you can and keep campaigning. Whether that's the VP of development, the VP of marketing, for example, and getting them bought in and using them to help them help you get up upwards, you know, towards the top. I think that's really, really critical. I think working really closely with ERGs to understand what employees care about and empowering them to do volunteer experiences for their company and engage their employees, really, really powerful there. Aligning the program as much as possible with the business goals. Again, I touched on that, but that's really critical and a huge element for creating successful program. Tracking and measuring engagement and impact is absolutely critical as well.

Ben Sampson: I think, you know, for companies that are launching these programs, having the data to report back on what that ROI is, is critical to continue getting budget, to continue growing and expanding the programs. And I think having amazing volunteer experiences that can reach your employees with their time constraints, huge element as well. I love how Kate's thinking about and talking about how we reach our, our frontline employees, the employees that are doing different kinds of work, the employees that aren't behind a laptop like you and I are right now. I think thinking about formats and how we create really meaningful experiences for them in unique ways is something that's going to keep them coming back and continue to engage with your company in these programs. So just a few of the key elements that stand out to me, David, and like what makes a program really, really successful.

David Grubman: That's awesome. I mean, I think, I think Kate's even taking notes on this. So, so Kate, you had mentioned small team and I think that, I think that's the reality of a lot of our clients. How do you, because you're on the foundation side. What's that? Where's that line drawn between the foundation side and the HR team and how do you guys work together to deliver, you know, what your mission?

Kate Barrett: Yeah, yeah. Well, so we are, I will say, as a corporate foundation, very much integrated into the, into the company, right? So, you know, my role is sort of dual, dual role, right? Two hats as sort of leader of the foundation, leader of community affairs, aligned goals, aligned visions, right? Foundation is just sort of one of the ways in which we kind of fund the work and support the work. But, you know, working closely with HR has been a really important push. And I would say especially just over the last few years as, as we really are trying to, when you, again, when you kind of come back to this idea of sort of where does it align with sort of company strategy, right? Like, I think oftentimes we're kind of put in that category. We often talk about as Campbell's as sort of like, how do we deliver on the promise of our purpose, right?

Kate Barrett: And that's often where you think about a lot of the community work and it's absolutely there, but we also have a focus area, strategic focus areas, a company around building a winning team and culture mm-hmm, right? Mm-Hmm. And that to me needs to knock the HR, right? We are all responsible for that. And our, you know, our community programs are a huge part of building that sense of belonging, right? That sense of engagement and culture that we're trying to, you know, continue to build at Campbell's. So, you know, just trying to figure out sort of who are the different stakeholders to work with in hr? And, and that can be challenging, right? It's, that's a big, that's a much bigger organization than mine, right? So figuring out, you know, where do we connect on the performance management side? We have, you know, a team who's revamping new hire orientation, right?

Kate Barrett: To Ben's point, like how do we make sure we're plugging in, in our part of that new hire conversation? Like, I invite myself to a lot of conversations and a lot of meetings and groups. I really, I mean, you just kind of have to insert yourself sometimes and, and really make it clear. because Again, I think that's where, back to sort of the, also like the business case piece, which I know is kind of a theme a lot in this conversation is, you know, when you can sort of really connect back to that employee engagement, retention, you know, piece, attraction piece of the puzzle, right? That's, that's really, really core to being able to continue to grow the program.

David Grubman: That's awesome. That's awesome. So let's, so a a lot of what we've talked about is kind of, and, and Kate, you mentioned this before in terms of a kind of comprehensive program. And this is, you know, kind of the journey you guys went through was bits and pieces of a program until you wove it all together. You know, we wise, I believe that a comprehensive, as I mentioned in the beginning of our conversation, that a comprehensive solution includes, you know, grant making, employee giving and volunteering engagement programs and putting it all under, you know, one robust, comprehensive program. I want to start with you, Kate. Like, I know you mentioned at the beginning of the call what was, everyone's on a journey, right? Everyone starts somewhere and everyone continues on a, on a kind of a spectrum of progression of I would say maturity, but that sounds judgmental. Like what was your guys' progression in terms of capabilities for engagement, capabilities for, you know, supporting the community, supporting employees and then what does it look like in three, five years?

Kate Barrett: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, I think that, again, like our programs I think kind of had, maybe again, this is a little bit in terms of what Ben was talking about as sort of like events versus programs. Hmm. I think historically it was a little bit more just sort of like event, event based or sort of like micro program, right? And so again, everything was like a little bit, a little bit disjointed and it was all there, but it wasn't sort of a cohesive story about, you know, employee community engagement for our employees and what that looks like. And so, you know, a big, a few things I think also like prompted the, the shift for us you know, one was just responding to, to changing demographics in an increasingly young employee population and people just asking, right? And, and sort of demanding more of the programs, which is, which is great to say like, well, hey, like, why can I only give to these few organizations?

Kate Barrett: Or why is there a, we had used to have a minimum a hundred dollars gift to get a match. And it's like, again, talk about, you know, equity and accessibility of the programs. It's like, why is that? It's like, right. So it took also sometimes our team and employees like questioning some of the parameters around the programs and why they were there. We also had a big growth in our employee base with an acquisition of another company. And so all of a sudden we had, you know, even more manufacturing facilities to support, more locations to support. And again, it was like, we really have to, you know, simplify this and make sure that we've got, you know, competitive offerings in this area. So, you know, that really prompted, I think a lot of the, a lot of the change and the thinking. And then, you know, I think in terms of like where it's evolving, you know, I think the overall structure that we have today makes a lot of sense, but it's building out now, I think even more robustly, some specific pieces.

Kate Barrett: So like skills-based volunteering mm-hmm. Right? Mm-Hmm. And having a little bit more of a structured way to offer opportunities for employees to use their skillset to, you know, help build the capacity of all the wonderful nonprofits in our communities. And to really, you know, think about connecting that to their individual development plans, right? So I'm trying to develop maybe further develop a certain skill, what a great opportunity to take on a consulting project. Yeah. You know, with a nonprofit partner, I'm going to really like, keep building that skill. I'm going to sort of demonstrate to my manager, I've got, you know, an area, right? So again, that's like one of those HR connections. So I think the skills-based volunteering piece, you know, both to benefit our employees and to benefit our communities is, is a one that we'll continue to build out. We've talked about kind of formalizing more around board service mm-hmm as well as sort of a form. I, I think about, you know, as a form of skills-based volunteering. And then continuing to just really think about those opportunities for our hourly workforce. I think those are some of the, the priorities for us going forward. So there's always opportunities to, to build and grow, I think especially once you feel like you have that solid, you know, solid foundation. For the program

David Grubman: Foundation for the foundation,

David Grubman: No. And, and as clearly, if you look at any, anybody that's doing programs, you have that foundation. The, so when you guys do volunteering activities, how do you tie in employee giving and grant making? Are those synonymous? Are they combined? Sorry, I'm going to surprise you with questions.

Kate Barrett: Yeah. So, well, one way we directly incorporate the employee giving piece is that when employees volunteer, they have the opportunity to use the volunteer match mm-hmm. So for every hour that they volunteer $10 to the organization, right? So you know, again, that's, they don't have to use their, their annual match cap that way, but that's an opportunity, right? So that's one way that we directly connect the volunteerism piece to the giving piece. And I think it's, it's great because it has a couple, I think, well more than a couple, but a few like key benefits. You know, one is, you know, understanding and recognizing that for many of our nonprofits, volunteerism is not, is not free, right? They're often really going through their way to accommodate our volunteer groups. And so finding a way to kind of compensate them too and, and make sure that they're, we're making it worth their while is really important.

Kate Barrett: And then it's a huge incentive for getting employees to track their time, right? So if they know that when they track their volunteer time, they can get that, you know, that volunteer match for the organization they volunteered with. You know, when we set our volunteer hours goals, like one of the biggest challenges is getting people to, to log the hours of time. So we have that data, right? So yeah, we, all the time, we often talk about, yeah, we often talk about that, but I think, you know, I don't know that the, the data would bear out that if people didn't have the volunteer match, they wouldn't volunteer. But would they actually volunteer and then track the time.

David Grubman: Talk track. Exactly. Tracking the time. It's not the action, it's the, it's, it's not the participation, it's the action of tracking it

Kate Barrett: And yeah. And telling us, right? Yes. There's a lot that goes on that we don't know about. So, and again, that obviously has that important benefit of providing the financial support, you know, even in small amounts, but it adds up to the nonprofit community as well.

David Grubman: So a question on the a question from the, the chat conversation, which is relevant here. So when employees do that participation, do you require sign off from the nonprofit of that employee's participation when they, when they're reporting their time?

Kate Barrett: Yeah, so we don't ask the nonprofits to sign off. We ask employees to right. To, to sign off. So sometimes we might have, you know, we can set up like a large, you know, volunteer event, you know, in the portal and then, you know, there's 30 people who are signed up, but then they need to go in and say like, yes, I was there, right? because They might've been signed up and then something changed in their schedule. So it's, it's really more on the employee side. I, I think, you know, just versus kind of asking, again, putting more burden on the nonprofit to have to share back a list. Think, you know, we kind of make that, you know, it's obviously bit of an honor system, right? But to have employees kind of self-certify they were there, or yes, I was there, but it wasn't three hours, it was two hours or whatever that may be.

David Grubman: Yeah. And when I, and I, when I work with clients as well, that's the, that's the behavior we see. We're asking the, the employee to, sometimes they'll ask the employee to assign a, an online signing of a form to attest their attendance, but otherwise it's their, on our system. And, and Ben, as you know, kind of Kate alluded to in this, in this, how these things feed into each other. What, I guess when you work with clients, what do you see the volunteering activity, driving into corporate grants, driving into employee donations, how do you see those things kind of inter intersecting and connecting to each other?

Ben Sampson: Yeah, great question. I mean, they're, I think they're a hundred percent related. I mean, I think our data here is amazing too. We know, just like looking back through like five years, five years of like WeHero history, that if employees volunteer they're 2.2 times more likely to donate to that nonprofit that they volunteer for, but here's like the crazy metric that's mind blowing to me. If they did that volunteer program for that nonprofit, not only are they 2.2 times more likely to donate, on average they're donating 10 times as much money. Like, that's mind blowing. So like the, I think the relationship is really strong. And so, you know, when we work with nonprofits, when we work with companies, we really want to think about that holistically. Like we're not just talking about volunteering and activation, we're talking about why that investment's important because of what it can create in regards to an cause and effect on the giving side of things as well. And so I think that's something that's really exciting and it's, it's, it's very exciting that the data's supporting that, especially as we get more and more data and research around this. Does that, does that answer your question, David? Yeah,

David Grubman: But let me pause that. So Kate, is that what you see in practicality?

Kate Barrett: Yeah, so we see, we definitely see a similar link where, you know, I think it just creates that, you know, yeah. That loyalty to the organizations that people are volunteering with. And so you know, we often are, you know, wind up seeing that people are kind of giving to, and often it's honestly giving to the same organizations that they're also volunteering with kind of on their own time and on their weekends, right? But generally that's, you know, when we look at the data, sort of a, who people are giving to that is, that is generally how it looks. And yeah, I think that I import that connection is important. And then we often kind of bring that back to then we, when we do, you know, a giving campaign, we can then sort of like set up, you know, a fund to sort of give to some of the organizations that we've volunteered with in a given community and, and then kind of allow employees to kind of, if, if they, you know, want to participate, but they're not exactly sure who to give to, it's like, Hey, consider giving to this group of Camden organizations that are some of our, you know, long-term partners and that we volunteer with.

Kate Barrett: And again, it just sort of makes it, it's also just more tangible, right? They kind of, they know who they're giving to. And so we see really high kind of utilization of those, the promotion of those funds that connect back to, you know, the partners either that we, again, work with on gut volunteerism or that we also, you know, give grants to. So we see a lot of that, that connection on the corporate grant making side too.

David Grubman: That is that, yeah, go ahead.

Ben Sampson: I was just saying, I just think, you know, from a high level, when we think about why this is happening and it, it just built so much trust with the employee mm-hmm. I think when we started WeHero we were looking at consumer giving was dropping about 1% per year. And the biggest reason for that was a trust factor. And we're like, there's so many incredible nonprofit organizations out there. Like, we can do our work to build awareness for these nonprofits and build trust around these nonprofits. And, and, and that's proven to work really well. So I think just the trust factor there is incredibly important.

David Grubman: That's awesome. That's awesome. So so we can talk about building programs and being successful and effective. But Ben, when you, when you bring these programs to companies, you know, there, there's a big excitement and enthusiasm in year one and like, what, what do the barriers look like for bringing a program in? And I think that creating that sustainability, and I know Kate, I'm going to keep going to the legacy of Campbell's, but what, you know, what do you do? What, what are the things that you see that are barriers and how do you overcome them?

Ben Sampson: I think, I think a few barriers that I think that are top of mind right now and occurring in a lot of companies, a huge one's time. People are so sensitive about the time they're investing in programs and not as many employees are going, I have four hours or eight hours to like do a volunteer program. And so time sensitivity, we're noticing becoming an increasing obstacle. I'm thinking about volunteer formats that are high impact that could be done in short, you know, time periods is something, okay. We're thinking about for engaging more employees in companies. Again, I, I talked about this before, but a huge o obstacle continues to be leadership buy, and happy to talk again about campaigning. I think another thing we, we get into a lot of companies that have been doing programs and making changes to programs over the years.

Ben Sampson: And a big question we get is, how do we reengage disengaged employees? And what I mean by that is, like an employee went through a volunteer event, felt like it was busy work, and disengaged from the process. I didn't have a good time. This wasn't worth my time. I'm not going to sign up for that Earth Day campaign. I'm not going to jump onto that CSR platform. How do we reengage those employees? So that's something that, wow, we, we see quite often some, some ideas on, I'm not going to be like, here's the challenges.

Ben Sampson: Some ideas of like how we're seeing this get resolved meeting people where they are in terms of volunteering. You know, Kate touched about this again about like, we have employees that are in so many different job types and have so many different time constraints. We need to be thoughtful of that and think about the kind of volunteer experiences that we can offer them. Experiences that could be done at home, experiences that could be done within 10 to 15 minutes during a lunch break. Experiences that could be done in a virtual environment. For example, you know, I just did a volunteer event where I was helping, you know, people that are struggling with visual impairment and helping, you know, people find the bus stop, you know, all through my phone all within like 10 minutes. And, and we need to think about those formats and, and start offering more of those to our employees that are doing that.

Ben Sampson: Again, leadership, buying tough campaigning to the top. When we start working with companies on campaigning and having that mindset, we're seeing more and more engagement. We're seeing more and more buy-in, and eventually we start starting to get really good leadership buy-in as well. How do we re-engage the disengaged employees? So, challenging to do I think of, I call this employee activations, taking an event that's already occurring where that employee's at and embedding volunteering inside of it. Take a sales conference or a sales meeting, for example mm-hmm. Hey everybody, we're going to take a break and for 30 minutes we're going to build a water filter. This one water filter is going to give 12 people clean water for 10 years. And just giving them that taste and that ability to re-engage in a volunteer program mm-hmm, in a very curated way. We're seeing a huge success rate in getting people back and engaged into the program. Awesome. Reengage on the, on the platform through some of those methods. And so again, some of the key obstacles we're noticing David there and, and then some ways that we're noticing companies tackle those.

David Grubman: Yeah. And then, so Kate, I know, again, I keep going back to the legacy, like what are the barriers and challenges that you have? I know you've got the demographics of the workforce, you've got folks in the field and you've already spoke, you've already touched on some of this. Yeah,

Kate Barrett: Yeah, yeah. I mean, definitely some of them have come up. I mean, I think the, the kind of the data and reporting one can be a real barrier, right? I mean, again, like often, you know, the engagement is happening you know, employees are participating. How do you get them to actually tell them what you're doing? Especially because we do also track like the volunteerism outside of work piece. And that, I think that's even harder, right? It's one thing if it's a big team event happening, you know, during office hours. So that re that reporting piece is hard. And I think, and I think the reason it matters comes back to like, how do you tell the story, right? And how do you show the impact? Right. And you kind of, you have to have the, the data to be able to, to show that.

Kate Barrett: The other one that's been challenging for us too is like not only just collecting the data on, you know, number of volunteer hours, things like that, but then connecting it back to employee engagement at Campbell's, right? Like we mm-hmm. You know, we can lean on the, the data that's out there and very compelling and I think that that tells the story, but like, if you can get a few questions in your employee engagement survey and be able to track that over time mm-hmm, right? Mm-Hmm. And tell the story specific to your, your company, again, that just can be, can be a challenge. But I think if you can, if you can get that that's fantastic. And then, yeah, I do think the, the thinking about those different, you know, workforces and thinking about the hourly piece where, you know, again, it's what Ben's talking about, about meeting people where they are and finding the different ways to, to make it work.

Kate Barrett: You know, when you have employees who are, you know, on the line paid by the hour, can't step away to volunteer mm-hmm, how do you create those, you know? Yeah. Those short experience on a, on a break time. Or, you know, again, I think it does link back to this idea of embedding it in existing events. And, and a big piece for us with that hourly workforce is connecting the internal community building to the external community building, right? So you're doing a, you know, a company barbecue to get like, you know, families and get people together and help people connect, you know, internally, can you add sort of a, a give back component, a volunteer event, you know, something to that. So really making that connection of when we're talking about community building, right? We're really thinking about internal and external community.

David Grubman: That's amazing. And, and we, and we're seeing a lot of that. And, and this is intended, this is not intended to be a commercial, but with our broader clients, we're seeing much more how can we extend our program outside of our employee population to either include retirees or including customers, friends, family vendors in our overall impact. And we're seeing, we're seeing a considerable in, in increase in that as well. I think so, and this may sound stereotypical, so I'll ask you, you're going to be the expert when you have a field worker or someone on the production floor, is that human, given their compensation or socioeconomic situation, are they more likely to volunteer or donate? Or is that something you even track? Don't, don't mean to put you on the spot.

Kate Barrett: Yeah. Yeah. I would say probably a little more or more likely to volunteer, but, but it's a mix. And that's, you know, again, that's where this employee choice piece comes back to say like, look, first of all, when we also are tracking employee giving and we're doing a campaign, we are increasingly focusing less on dollars and more on participation, right? So any amount helps really. And, and that's a really important point, right? You want to be really sensitive people's, you know, situations and that not everybody also thinking about like the time of year, right? Not everybody has the same ability to give at the same time of year or right. Or the same amount. And so just really thinking about just empathizing participation and that you can participate in a lot of different ways. And we even actually incorporated a new like category of our volunteers in which we call an act of care. So it's not necessarily

Kate Barrett: A lovely, a typical yeah. Volunteer activity, but maybe it's, you gave blood, you know, you brought in a present to put under the, you know, the Christmas tree for the toy drive, right? It's, so it's not a volunteering hour per se, right? But it's a, it's an act of care. It's an act of giving. And that to just really say like that really matters too. And that's important. And that's part of the culture again, that we're, we're trying to build.

David Grubman: It's an, it's an everyday action.

Kate Barrett: Yeah.

David Grubman: Yep. Love that. Love that. Ben, we'd love to get your perspective, but I, it, you know, what do you see in terms of kind of the, the different demographics of the employees and how that drives engagement? How do you best support them?

Ben Sampson: I, I agree with Kate. You know, we see a much stronger leaning towards the volunteer side of things in a lot of those cases and a various company to the company. I, I think it, it's what's unfortunate, David, honestly, is like we see a lot of companies that just don't try to engage those employees. Yeah. Yeah. Which, which can be really frustrating to see and watch. We really try to encourage that and create programs that make that really easy to do. Mm-Hmm it's been a huge focus for us. And so, yeah, I, I would agree so wholeheartedly with Kate and, you know, kind of like those everyday actions I think are absolutely critical. Again, figuring out formats and timelines that work for these folks. Mm-Hmm even, you know, we have experiences like that people can take home and do with their families, like in their kitchens, right? Mm-Hmm. Mm-Hmm. And so we think, I love that it spend a, we spend a lot of our time thinking about that. because It's a huge part of the employee base for a lot of companies, and we can really impact engagement and impact metrics that way.

David Grubman: And so I'm talking about metrics and, and Aaron just asked this question from UNC Health, how do you track these everyday actions? Okay. And I, and I, and I believe this is is an industry. Yeah. I think the, we're shifting as an industry. Yeah. But what do you, what do you track 'em, do you measure them? What do how?

Kate Barrett: Yeah. We, we do, you know, so right now we track them the same way that we do right now when you go to sort of like log your time in some way, right? It says like, there are categories of, you know, skills-based volunteering, traditional volunteering, board service, acts of care. So part of it's, we're doing a campaign around like, what is that and why does it matter? And why do we care? Right? So part of it's like you have to spread the word first of like, this is something we're tracking and that we care about. And then also we have really, especially in our plant communities, found some, frankly, we've had to just look at technology workarounds for tracking. So for example, you know, they're hosting a blood drive, like just have somebody from HR do a sign-in sheet and then somebody can just bulk off.

Kate Barrett: Oh, nice, nice. Right? So you're not asking every employee to individually after they give blood, go right. Log it, or they put a, a tree sorry, a present under the tree, right? They've listed their name when they drop it off. We now have that, we can capture it. Either our team or someone, you know, from HR at the plant can kind of bulk upload that at once. So that's where we're, you know, it's, again, it's the meeting people where they are, it's, you know, maybe a little bit more like handholding than we, you know, than we used to do. But I think it's really important, right? And we have to make sure that we're, especially for our employees that are, you know, don't have the company issue, devices aren't sitting in front of a computer, they're not going to just, you know, they're likely not gonna track their own time, but they might, you know, track, just kind of write their name down, share that they participated, and then we can, we can kind of capture that in the system.

David Grubman: I love that. I love that. Shifting a little bit in terms of the workers in workforce, and we, we've gone through a pretty substantive post covid shift in workplace offices. The notion of hybrid workers. I'm start with Ben. Like, what is, what are you seeing and how does that impact engagement rates, operational execution, program design, what are you seeing? What are, what are your, what are your clients coming to you with and how are you solving

Ben Sampson: Hybrid's a huge key word.

David Grubman:

Is this, is this for real? This is where we're going to be in five years. Like what, that may be a, that may be a whole new that may scratch that. because That might be a whole other webinar, but

Ben Sampson: I wish I knew the answer, David. Yeah. I think companies are trying to figure that out. Candidly, what does this look like in five years? We're all trying to, to figure that out. What we've noticed is the, the companies that are finding success, they're building a lot of flexibility into their programs. So when we think about volunteer execution, flexibility in regards to where those programs can be completed and how they can get done. Mm-Hmm. back to my point on format, like having, you know, three or four different kinds of volunteer formats that we know are successful, know our employees en enjoy and know we can reach every kind of demographic for our employee base. It, it has been where we're seeing companies find a huge amount of success. You know, there's formats that work really well for both the remote employees and the in-office employees in that hybrid format.

Ben Sampson: We've also noticed that, you know, there's a noticeable eagerness from the remote staff to do volunteering engagement because they are isolated in some way. They aren't in That's a good point, great point. And so we've noticed that as well. And I think, you know, just looking at the time, you know, there was definitely some economic challenges for a number of companies with a number of layoffs at the beginning of this year. Yeah. As we look at historical data, if we go back to 2008, we noticed a very nice spike in volunteer hours during that time period. And we're noticing the same today across companies. And so I'm kind of rambling going in a couple different directions here, but just given the time that we're at now and where things are going, the companies that are finding the greatest success, they're building in and thinking about flexibility in their programs and how they can develop formats that reach their entire employee base.

David Grubman: Nick, Kate, how did Covid affect you guys?

Kate Barrett: Yeah, I mean, it definitely you know, I'll be honest, right? We had, we had set some pretty ambitious volunteer hour goals in like early 2020. And so, you know, we saw, we saw a dip for sure, you know, during the pandemic, right? I mean, I, we definitely were able, you know, with partners like, like WeHero to do some engagement you know, for people remotely. But like we, we definitely just saw that, you know, it was, it was a, it was different, right? It was a dip. And we've been sort of working our way back kind of in the meantime. And I feel now, like there's actually feel like there's a lot of like pent up excitement and demand. And so when people are back in the office, they're really excited to, to kind of do the in-person volunteering again. You know, but then there also are, you know, to your point about like, I think there will be companies that will probably remain you know, remote or at least, you know, mainly, you know, mainly remote.

Kate Barrett: And then we also have, as I mentioned earlier, a portion of our workforce that just always works that way, right? Field-Based sales teams and other, other remote employees. And so the, the challenge that we see with them too is like just being able to offer a variety. Because sometimes, yes, people are going to want something that they can just do, like from their home. It's still a way to engage. They feel good, but we'll often hear from people too. Like, I spend a lot of time in my home office, I want to get out in the community,

David Grubman: Right?

Kate Barrett: And so it's, it's important to provide, I think that, you know, that option too. And so one thing we've done is said like, Hey, well, you know, we have a connection with Feeding America. There are food banks in all of our communities. Like, we can help make those connections and suggestions. Say like, go out with your family. And again, it's not always going to be with your colleagues if you don't, if you're not co-located in the same town or city. But, you know, find those ways to kind of get out with your family you know, and not just sort of be behind your desk all the time.

David Grubman: That's awesome. That's awesome. The, and we've seen, we call them activation events. We see those as well, where it's a great, you have a remote workforce or hybrid workforce. How do they get them to come back into the office? And having these amazing volunteering events in the office was a really good rallying crowd at bringing folks together. I know, Ben, you guys crushed that with your, with your best. I don't mean to take, I don't mean to take your thumb. All right. I know, I, I knew this was going to happen. I'm just, I wanted if we keep talking, but I know we do do need to honor the time, so we're supposed to allow 10 minutes at the end for questions, but I want to do one question to each of you before we go to the, the attendees questions. This is one win. So Kate, what's one specific program that's either outperformed others, like what was amazing, maybe it was those people I met in a restaurant in Toledo, like, what's one win? And then same thing for you, Ben, but Kate first.

Kate Barrett: Oh, so it's so hard.

Kate Barrett: One. Okay, I'm gonna cheat and I'm gonna give two. One is like, I would say my one win of just sort of overall was that consolidating the kind of matching program into one, right? I think that was just a big win and a big success to say like, we're not going to have separate programs for all these different things. You've got one annual match cap, you can use it how you want choice model, right? So I would say that was like, that's my high level, like one program when I would say one an area of a specific type of volunteerism and engagement that we have found hugely successful has been times where we could bring the community into our building, Uhhuh and really kind of have a unique, a uniquely Campbell experience for the community that also engages our employees.

Kate Barrett: And I think it's a win for several reasons, and I'll give an example, but it's a win because I'll be honest, even with salaried employees who have more flexibility, it's sometimes hard to get people out of the building in the middle of the workday, right? So it's, you've got, you're bringing people, you know, into our building. So it has the benefit of being easy for our employees. It has the benefit for the external community of sort of demystifying a little bit sometimes the corporate setting, right? And mm-hmm, you know, you're behind these gates sometimes, right? As we are in an office park. And so just like inviting the community in is a really important signal. And then it's something that we can uniquely offer. So in the cases of, you know, we're a food company, we have a consumer test kitchen, we have some really awesome show kitchens where our chefs experiment with different recipes. And so we bring students in and do culinary education for elementary and elementary school students. So it's a really meaningful way for our employees to engage with those students. And then it's really cool for them to, you know, kind of be inside a food company and literally see how the soup is made.

David Grubman: You've used, I think you've used that line before. So I know we're going to continue on questions. You are seeing a survey pop up. EFG would love to hear feedback on, on the overall value of the conversation. So if you would take a moment to respond to the poll questions, it greatly appreciated. So Ben, to you, what, just an ama, I mean, you and I have shared so many amazing stories on the programs you've, you've run what the highlight?

Ben Sampson: I I have too many. I'll share, I'll share one because I think it aligns with like a lot of the stuff that we're discussing today. It could be like a good case study of an example. It's a company called Sylvamo. They're a massive, one of the largest paper providers across the globe. And they have, you know, offices in Brazil, France, the US, everywhere you can imagine. And what they did is they wanted to build a volunteer program that aligned around their business goals, obviously, that they could reach all their different international locations and that could have, they could reach all of their employees as well with different formats. They decided to focus a hundred percent on education. And the way that they deploy this programs, they do an annual day of service, and then people can continue volunteering after that. And the goal is to get every single one of their employees the opportunity Wow.

Ben Sampson: To be activated around the cause. Yeah. And what I love about it is that they take a hyper localized approach to this. So all the local schools that are underserved in every single one of these com communities and every country that they're operating in was supported through the efforts. The ability for them to activate and resource every single one of their ERGs and divisions of the company in all those different countries was super well executed. And I think the exciting part about doing that activation at that level was seeing the, the results after that and the number of employees that are engaging throughout the rest of the year as a result around those opportunities and continuing to have, go and be volunteers in their communities at those schools. All wrapped around that, like that core focus that Sylvamo has, which is supporting education. And so I, I can go into so much detail there, but just for the sake of time, quick example of just companies out there that are just doing a great job and doing it really, really well.

David Grubman: That's awesome. That, that's awesome. And it's, it's like priming the pump. Once they, they've made those connections with the organizations, they know who to talk to, they're going to be more likely to do following actions. And I know we're supposed to, we're really tight on time with my apologies. So let me ask a couple of just rapid fire questions from the attendees. We have a lot of of nonprofits that are attending today, this conversation both to both of you guys. Kate, how, how do you select the nonprofits? Is there opportunities for folks to introduce themselves to you, Ben, similarly with the catalog of events that you guys have been, nonprofits you work with, how does, maybe it's three, three minutes isn't enough here. How, how do nonprofits get connected with corporate actions? Like what will both of you guys are doing? Kate, you want to go first?

Kate Barrett: Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, generally we really are focusing on the communities where we have our operations. So we, you know, rely a lot on the, you know, the organizations that our employees volunteer with, right? In their hometown communities. And that's how I would say the majority of organizations find us, right? It's a little bit unique in Camden, right? Again, where we've been here such a long time and we just have a lot of organizations that we know and have worked with for years. But you know, we have new organizations who we start volunteering with every year, right? So it's really just a lot of it is through our employees. You know, a lot of it is, you know, sometimes organizations will reach out directly to me, but generally, again, really focusing on sort of our hometown communities and getting people kind of out in a very, very localized way.

David Grubman: And Ben, how do you approach it?

Ben Sampson: Yeah, to any nonprofits that are interested in working with us, we're constantly working with nonprofits, building out new volunteer experiences. We will ha we're open to any conversation with the nonprofit. Reach out to us on our website. We'd love to learn about your programs, what you're doing and, and really how we can be of support. We know a lot of nonprofits are short staffed and, and have a tough time also, like handling and hosting corporate groups in some cases. And so us being a resource where we can help do a lot of that work for you is something we also try to offer and be that connective tissue between companies and nonprofits. So please reach out, always open to a conversation.

David Grubman: Awesome. And to that, so we've got a couple of successful volunteering program points that the team put together to share with you. These are included in the slides. We're not going to review it after the presentation. Tomorrow, you'll receive a recording of the, the, the discussion as well as the slides. And with that, I think we're at time, Kate, always amazing to speak with you, so appreciative of the work you guys are doing and, and, and the, your time today, Ben, amazing to see you again. Thank you so much for your share out. Ally, do you,

Ally Murphy: That was fabulous. I also like the amount of laughs that you had throughout. That is a really good addition for you.

David Grubman: I really like what I do for a living.

Ally Murphy: That's wonderful. Well, Ben, David, Kate, thank you so much for sharing your insights, your lessons, the kind of the high level advice, but also some of the tactical pieces of the day-to-day of how people can implement. I think that's really important. You can see the results on your screen. The webinar survey came in and then Joanne wants these one hour a week for like a month straight on the specific topic. So I think we hit the nail on the head. So to everybody that joined us today, thank you so much for joining us. We hope to see you at another Engage for Good webinar. And also if you like content like this, mark your calendars because we are headed to, I'm going to drop it in the chat to Minneapolis next year for our annual conference, the 14th through the 16th. And there's a button on that website where it'll literally add to your calendar. So David, Kate, Ben, thank you so much and everybody have a wonderful, I guess Friday and then a wonderful weekend.

David Grubman: Awesome. Thank you so much.

Ben Sampson: Thanks everybody.

David Grubman: Thanks everyone.

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